How to Grow a Digital Marketing Business (2020) – Episode 4

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– Welcome back everybody. It is the next episode
of Fix Your Business. I've got a fantastic guest
with me today is Jo Clark, the founder of Mustard Media solutions who are a digital marketing
agency based in Hereford. Welcome to the show Jo. – Hi everyone, thanks for inviting me. – It's a pleasure. I don't think you quite know
what you've let yourself in for, but this is going to
be fairly fast and furious. We're going to get through this
and about 20 or 30 minutes. You talked about, sort of,
off air about sort of getting a focused plan together for 2020 and 2021. It's not that's what we're
going to be kind of focusing on to start off with.

Just so everybody knows the midsection, we're going to be talking about pricing and how you said to me that you undervalue yourself fairly regularly. So hopefully we're going to start to fix that part specifically. And then I've got a little curve ball. So if you're watching this live, it will be worth your while staying on until the end of the show because we have got a
nice little curve ball, which I'm gonna throw in there. Jo has a mountain of knowledge, and I don't think she's fully
aware of, at the moment. So we're going to tap into that as well. So, right Jo, so we talked about off air that your current
turnover for the business.

Obviously crisis aside,
it's typically about, so the two K per month. – Yeah that's correct. – Fast sort of assessment. Okay, so and where you
would like to get it to sort of just as a starter
for one, three K would be nice, but is there a potential that
we could grow to five to 10k – Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the more the merrier,
but for the main priority for us is sort of sustainable growth. – Great. So talk to me,
and listeners about, in terms of Mustard Media Solutions, what sort of services do
you offer at the moment and how do you charge for them? – So Mustard Media Solutions
starts off couple of years ago and we provide small to
medium sized businesses, mostly in Herefordshire in
the surrounding counties, although we do have a couple
of other clients further off field as well with anything
related to digital marketing for their businesses.

So whether that be
social media management, content creation, photography,
videography, email campaigns, we work with a select
group of other providers. So things like websites
that we can provide as well. We mostly specialise ourselves
with social media management and content creation. So we specialise with
businesses who perhaps for whatever reason don't
have the specialist skills or the time to be able to manage their own social media accounts. Maybe they feel they want to
learn more about social media, but they want someone to help guide them through that process. We mostly work for businesses
who or have got less than 15 employees just because we find that that's the level
of business that we find that need the most help with.

Perhaps we consider, sourcing their digital marketing
services elsewhere. They can't necessarily afford
to have a full time person that's specialised in doing
all of digital marketing for them, but they can't afford
to be able to outsource that service to someone
else like ourselves. – Cool. And in terms of, I know this is gonna be
very much a broad brush sort of question here, like how
long is a piece of string? How do you charge for your services? – Basically per day. So we've worked out with our
packages that we provide. Say for example, using
social media management as an example, we know
how much time it takes to create three posts a week,
five posts a week, seven posts a week, for a particular business. And we also know how much time
on average that content takes to create and also
implement and then manage their social media accounts for them. We take that time, it works
out as generally anywhere between a day, two days
or a week per month.

And then we price those
packages as a day rate so they– – So what's the day rate at the moment. – So it's 186 pounds
per day, for our time. And so for example,
that's our basic rates. So it takes about a day
to create a month's worth of content for any business,
implement that content and also do things like community
engagement, outreach work, that sort of thing. – Cool. So, I don't know if you've probably read and watch some of my other videos, but my, I have a theory around
day rate and hourly rates. And I believe that it is
fundamentally unethical. Do you want me to explain why? – Go for it.

– So let's say for
example, I mean you kind of touched upon sort of
websites and things like that. So imagine if you have an
inexperienced web designer who is charging 50
pounds now for a website and he coached you 20 hours. All right? And you're like, cool,
okay, let's go for it. So that's going to cost
me a thousand pounds. So he comes back sort of
several weeks or months later, cause he's not terribly
good at what he's doing.

He's only just started. The website doesn't look great. It's not terribly functional. It doesn't really,
isn't, didn't really plug into like Google very well. And he comes back and says, "Jo, I'm really sorry
I've used up my 20 hours. "Would it be, it's gonna
take me another 10 hours, "but you've got to pay for it. "Is that okay?" – I'll be like, no. [laughs] – Right. However, if you get a really
experienced web designer who is just putting together,
you know, brochure style, website, you know, it's
the same amount of work, same outcome as what Virginia
developer was gonna design, was gonna put together. But he does it in 10 hours. But because he doesn't
know much about pricing, he just charges what
everybody else has charges. He also charges 50 pounds an hour. But it's better. It's more functional.

It plugs into Google and
gets found in search engines. But it's half the price. So why should the guy who is
more experienced get paid less for doing a better job? It doesn't make sense. So hence the reason, the mere fact that, I mean most people are moral ethical, upstanding human beings. So we would never, if we
promise something to somebody, we would probably never come back and say, could we have more money please? But the mere fact that you could tells me that charging by the hour by the day isn't the right way to do it.

– I mean, to be fair, our
pricing is based on a daily rate, but that's just, that's just the way that we price our packages. We're not charging our clients
on a daily or an hourly rate. They are paying a fixed rate. If it takes off more
time, well that's on us. That's not on the client. – Where we've got to get– – Sorry. – I shouldn't say sorry to talk over it. So where we've got to get
you to is to a point whereby we're getting you solidly
focused on outcomes and results. Okay.

I think before we
go into sort of unpicking that side of it. I think we've got to kind of
start to look at the goals which you set for your business. So I'm just going to share
my screen in a second. Here we go. So you've kind of at the moment, one of the things that she said, you don't have much of a plan,
so I bet your life probably looks a little bit like this. So imagine each one of these
crosses here is an activity which you have to do in your
business on a day to day basis. So whether it's like an
email or telephone call or coming to do a
ridiculous video with Robin or jumping onto Facebook to
do some social media marketing or getting a Google review
or picking up the phone and calling one of your clients.

So doing a bit of work
or fixing a problem, one of your staff have kind of given you, but what is that starting
to kind of look like? – A vegetable bed. – Yeah, I'm kind of have
a bit of OCD so it's a bit of a pattern there, but it's
actually a bit of a mess if you think about it as a to do list. So what you've actually
got to do is start to give it a bit of a sense of direction. And the only way really to achieve that is to have, one specific goal in mind.

Okay. Because then what we can start to do is these, activities that are over here, we can decide, well
actually that's not going to get us closer to our goal. So we have, for everything
that we do in our business, is this going to get me
close to my goal or not? And this will start to make
a little bit more sense than in a second when I
start to make it relevant.

And the things which aren't
gonna get us to our goal, we just don't, we decide not to do. One of the challenges that is though, done in this sort of bottom third here, there's a lot of activities going on, this email, which we're
going to send out here is that going to get me close to my goal? And the goal could be something like, well and I'm going to be a bit,
I know you said you want to get to 3k but I'm
going to push you a bit and see if we could get
you to say 5k a months. Right? But is sending that email
out gonna contribute to that 5k a month. Well I don't know, but my gut instinct is telling me that's a good prospect we've
built up a good relationship.

So actually you follow through. And maybe what we'll do,
is we'll get them booked onto a consultation, we'll
grab some information from them, we'll set the consultation. And so you kind of have this
very noisy space down here where we're trying to kind of
just piece to gather stuff. But as you can start to see
it as a customer journey, you know, this will be something which you'll be talking about
with your clients as well. And we can start to kind
of piece it together. So then we get the
proposal sent out, we start to get a little bit more sort of clarity, around like what our clients want, what we want out of our business, whether it's contributing
to our 5k month or not. And then finally, somewhere
sort of roundabout here, the message finally hits home and we closed one of those clients. So now this is a tougher question. On average, how much a month
do your retain clients pay on average? – On average 200 pounds. – Oops. So 200 pounds. So have you got capacity
to work with 25 clients? – At the moment? No.

– How many could you work with? – 15. – Okay. So not too far
a drift then actually, but to give yourself an
extra bit of bandwidth, really what I think we
need to be doing is, somehow shifting that
average from 200 a month up to something more like
probably 400 a month. Okay. So then we can set our capacity at 12 and a half clients. If they kind of come
in, in that sort of form or just to make the
numbers round, could we get at sort of 500 pound a month or you know, and what we're talking about here is there might be some
clients on say thousand pound a month, someone 500
pound a month, someone 250 a month for example.

No, I know you want, we're
going to come on to pricing. I know you want to work
with micro businesses, SMEs who maybe don't have necessarily
the resources themselves. But I know you asked me
about whether you should have a notepad ready. There is one thing which
I want you to write down. You have to become– – That's why I was asking
if I needed to make notes. – This, any one thing that you got, I mean this is being
recorded as well, obviously. So this is really important. You have to become a master at working out the return on investment,
the ROI that your clients are gonna get when they invest in you. So one of the, and this is
why we're going to start to get into the coaching side of things. If I were to ask you to
guarantee your results, how would you feel about that? – I could provide guaranteed results. – Yeah. So if we were to do a
three post a week package on social media with a couple of blogs and maybe the odd video or two thrown in, and maybe it's sort of 500 plus pounds, 500ish pounds a month.

Using your experience,
you probably know that that should generate
between 10 to 20 warmish sort of leads or inquiries. – Yeah. – Yeah. So we we can't necessarily
guarantee that result. I mean, the client also has
to get involved as well, and you've got to obviously
make sure that, you know, but what you can say to some base, "Well look how about, you know, "it's gonna cost you a
bit more, but we're good "at what we do and we're
fairly confident having worked "with businesses similar to
yours that we can get you, "you know, 10 to 20 leads a month through "our silver social media package." Because then they can start
to calculate and imagine if they're a coach like me for example, who is doing somewhere between
10 and 20 grand a month.

Well, if I just get one extra client, I've got a five X ROI on
my monthly spend with you. That's one extra client a month
through us working together. So I can justify spending
500 pounds a month with you. And provided we're getting
people joining the Facebook group and we're getting some engagement there and I'm able to send some
messages back and forth and book people into meetings. Now obviously it does rely on
me being able to do my part of the deal, which is to actually, you know, book meetings and close clients. Yep. So, that's the thing. So your, your guarantee stops
where my responsibility start. But you can start to see
the actually five K a month is unrealistic charging
what you currently charge cause you don't have the
capacity to deliver more.

– Yes. – You also don't have
the resources to be able to pay somebody full
time to actually deliver the extra workload, if that makes sense. So that's starting to give me clue here that you're undercharging yourself. Okay. So, but the idea is that
once we've kind of created this kind of, this customer journey that it becomes systemized, repeatable, you can see from this as well the actually at 500 pound a month you
only need 10 clients.

– Mm-hmm. – Yep. Which is more than reasonable. Imagine if you got one client a month for the next 10 months,
you're at your five K goal. – Yeah. – Yep. And it might mean that
you've got to turn away two 250 pound a month clients. So say no to a couple of
people or create a package that's appropriate for them. In order to say, to create
the room, the space, to be able to charge a
bit more for that one, big a client. Does that make sense? So that's, we're gonna come
onto the pricing in a second, but that's one of the first
places where people start to feel the fear. What I can't afford to turn clients away, I need the clients. Okay, does that kind of resonate with you? – Oh no, I'm quite happy
to turn people away. [laughing] – Good. Well that's a good thing.

Some people really struggle
with it only on the basis, like fear of rejection, fear of, you know, not finishing what they started, you know, is, are we going to lose
face by not doing the work and things like that. But fundamentally, you
know, every business has an inherent amount of
failure kind of built into it. So, you being in charge of
the no is super important and I'm glad you've got that nailed. So– – Well part of the reason
for that is that we've kind of had an in-company policy of not working with competing businesses anyway. So, for example, we have
a firm of accountants on our books and we were
approached by another accountancy company, in Herefords to do their social media for them. We said to them, you know, terribly sorry, but we don't work with
competing, businesses.

And we did look to see if, if the service that we could provide, if
we could make it so that it wasn't actually directly competing, but there was no way
around it unfortunately. So we have in past term, had
to turn down offers of work, due to that basis anyway so. – One of the other things
that you could do as well, cause I bet there's an
element of like front loading in terms of the work you. – What do you mean by front loading? – So let me, I'll go
back to the screen again and then we can kind of go through it. So at the moment, so imagine
we've just for argument's sake, it's where we're running the Ford factory and we only have one product. It's the model T Ford. So let's say for example,
you have a 500 pound product. Now that's, that creates your sustainable sort of recurring revenue on
what we call the back end.

But it might be that when you go through that initial kind of
fact find with a client and work out, like get
to know their brand, understand what content
they're putting out, listen to the voice, which tone
of voice, which they used in their content. And then you start to kind
of create the content plan. There's a whole load of work
which has to happen first before you actually get
into the regular posting and content creation. – Yes. – So what you have is
like a front end product, which is neatly backed up by this backend, sort of ongoing revenue model here. – Oh yeah, so for example,
we work with a client for a minimum of three
months to solve softwares because that then the accounts for this, the amount of time that we
need to spend with a client at the start to be able to then be able to have these front-end services and we can then work with later on. – So we're going to change this slightly.

So I've left a little gap at the top here, so we're going to create a
new front end product for you, so you get paid for that time upfront. – Oh, that would be nice. – Okay. So it doesn't have
to be like totally outrageous or ridiculous, but let's say for example, it was a thousand pounds to
do all of the fact find setup, bit of workshopping to go through, make their content plan with them. You know, that could be something nice, which you could get the client
really heavily involved with. Go and spend, no, obviously
virtually at the moment, but when lockdown finishes,
you can go and spend half a day or a day in their office with them. Kind of going through really structured like seven point content
plan creation day, you know, all that sort of fun stuff.

And off the back of it, you can have a year's
worth of content planned. Right. – Yeah.
– But we're going to charge. – That's great. Because we basically, we
do that at the moment, but we don't charge for it. – Yeah. So we're going to do a thousand pounds. And that's paid for upfront in advance, so that you're starting to build that trusting relationship there. They're coming to you as
an expert service provider and the words you use are, and if somebody is ever
worried about paying a thousand pounds up front
for social media manager, there's something wrong with that. Because actually if this is how you work and you've got, you deliver enormous value in that workshop, the
idea being technically somebody could do this,
that initial workshop, get the report from you. And then if they wanted to, go and get it, get the content done elsewhere. So we give them a highly valuable product. Now, the thing is, so one of the reasons why this is really pertinent is because, one of my mentors when he was, he used to run a, this is way back when
product packaging business.

So they would do the
design for free at this, you know, before he discovered
what he's taught me now. And then they would have a big warehouse, you know, manufacturing
plant where they would go and make all the nice
boxes and plastic cases and stuff like that. But everybody, what we used to happen was they do all this free design work and then of course everybody would go off sort of shopping around
and find the cheapest place to do the packaging. So what they did, bearing
in mind this was back in like the 1970s, they
charged 25,000 pounds for the design process. Nobody ever charged for design for it. And of course, the first thing
people say when you charge a lot for something like that is, – Why? – Okay, why, but more
often than not, "Oh gosh, "he must be good." – Okay. – So they make an assumption
based on this value that we've created. Perceived or otherwise doesn't matter. So, not only that, but
when they then delivered the design piece, who do
you think they then went to get the packaging done.

– Them. – Them. Because they've already invested,
like they've doubled down, they've invested already,
so it made sense to stay with the same company. Now the beautiful part of this was that, because the design was very heavily, well both parts of business became very heavily process driven. Obviously the manufacturing
side of it was already, but they productized
the design side of it. So this workshop we're creating for you and that front end piece,
what it means is that, well what it meant for them was that, they had 40 people in the
factory making the packages, the boxes, and they had four
guys in the design studio. But the design studio was
10 times more profitable than the warehouse where they
were making the packaging.

So for you this could be a
really nice way to start, to drop an enormous amount
of value for your clients. It's right off the bat,
get paid handsomely for it. But then also once you
build that trust up, it's a no brainer for them to then come in and actually implement it. And actually one of the
things you could do. I mean, I've put a
thousand pounds in there. It depends on, you know, your confidence and your ability to sell. And we're going to come
on to pricing in a second. But let's say for example,
now it's a thousand pounds plus a minimum of a three
or six month commitment at 500 pounds a month.

You've just increased the lifetime value of a client dramatically. So imagine now if you had
just in the next two months. So throughout May and June,
you sell one front end package a month plus one back end
package of 500 pound a month. In two months you've just hit two K. – Mm-hmm. – Yep.
– Yeah. – With two clients. Now you can start to get a little bit, and this is why we kind of go into, could be beyond the realms of possibility. This is mostly going to be down to sort of your confidence around pricing. What if that was two K? Okay. I'll give you an example of this. So we used to do a one
day branding workshop, but originally it's a long
convoluted design process that would take months.

ipad tablet technology touch

We worked out the steps that
went into delivering it. So he compressed down six weeks, still wasn't good enough in my eyes. I wanted to make it a one
day branding workshop. Get the client in, they leave
with a logo, legal searches, domains registered, branding guidelines, the works, everything. So we would just double
down on the day's effort. And the old logo design
process we used to charge, I mean it sounds ridiculous, but it'd be like this is
before I know what I know now, but 50 pounds an hour like you know, and it would be about 10
hours worth of billable time. So 500 quid, for one
day branding workshop. I launched it at 1500 pounds,
no resistance, three times the price, same or even the better result because we got it done
quickly, efficiently with the client there, they got exactly what they wanted.

We had a money back guarantee on that. So if at the end of the day they didn't feel that
they'd received that value that we promised, we would
just hit the refund button, send the money back to them. And we were doing about 40 or 50 a year and had zero people ask for refund. As they got enormous value from it. One of these days, so we used
to limit it to three people. One day somebody asked me if I could, go to York the next day
to deliver there so like there's 300 miles, 250 miles. And there would be 23 people in the room as I did the workshop.

So I said, "Yeah, I'll do it. "That'll be 10k." And they said, "Yes." Okay. So you can start to create
enormous value from having some kind of a front
end product to workshop, something like that. Like
I said, if you're selling that 2k, you've only got
to sell like one a month or one every other month, you know, but you've got to be clear
on exactly what outcomes and results people are gonna get. So this has to be very,
very much about outcomes and results. Remember what I said, be
able to calculate the ROI that your client is gonna
get from working with you. So outcomes and results. Let's talk about pricing. Okay. What's, how'd you feel about
charging a thousand pounds for a planning workshop? – I think that's absolutely possible.

So long as, like you
said, you were very clear as to what the client was going
to received as part of that. – Cool.
– Yeah. It's about like what you said it's about return on investment. – So there's a few kind of
very simple steps for it, cause you probably already
do elements of it already. So to get them to that,
like that ready phase where you can start delivering
the content for them. So what you need to do is you need to kind of reverse engineer those steps that it takes to get them to that point. Where you then flip into
the monthly kind of like, you know, cranking the
handle stuff for them. So, like the design, one day
branding workshop for example. So we had, we did an
exercise around core values, so it was just a word
association game, basically around like what the
core were for the various different stakeholders in
the business, the customer, the products, the…
that business themselves and the employees within the business.

So for different
stakeholders in the business. And then we would move on and start doing, sort of a mind mapping
exercises to come up with like small creative words. So for example, my original
business was called The Coconut Group. And the reason how we
came up with that name was our core values
around, is around growth. This notion of taking our
clients on the journey. We want our business to be
fun, et cetera, et cetera. And then we went into
the mind mapping exercise and coconut kind of brought
those words together.

So that's where it came from. So step number three, we then moved into the legal searches. Step number four, we then start
to get into concept design. We'd get out sheets of
paper, crayons, pens, us and the client would just
start sketching out ideas. We'd have a couple of books, which I've still got knocking around here, like sample logos, you know,
and we come up with like, and we gradually start to reduce it down to sort of, I don't know, two or three like really good ideas
that we all agreed on that would work for that brand. From there we would then
start to go into, creating the electronic versions of the
logos, fine tuning colours, fonts, et cetera, et cetera. And then finally, we
would then look at photos which would be, would
fit nicely associated with the brand that we were creating. So we had this whole sort
of visual focus for it.

And it was when we
identified those seven steps that we could start to refine
each one of those steps and make it shorter and
shorter and better and better and more efficient and more
efficient and get a bigger bang for our clients book. So I think for you, if you can
start to with that workshop, it's a matter of, right,
break down the steps you currently doing. How can you smash them out in a day? Like, take them through
a journey, you know, those seven steps in
the day or your version of the seven steps in a day. And what are the deliverables going to be? So it'd be right, well here's,
here's your content plan for the next 12 months. – Well, it's interesting you say that because we already have that technically because we did a course,
through the local college, we're offering a course
on digital marketing and branding and that sort of thing.

And we have those steps already. They are basically the steps
of the course that we did. We just never really implemented
it with our new clients because we never really had the time. Because the time was not
paid for to be able to do it. – Yeah. – So we were still doing it. We just weren't getting
paid for that service. – So we're going to get you paid for it. So what this looks like,
and I'm not going to go through the full product architecture, I'll do the first bit. So we have, I talk about something called
a breakthrough product, which is going to be
your one K planning day.

So, one k planning. We can always touch base sort of offline. If you want help designing this, you're then gonna from
there be selling people into one of three to five core products. Okay. So I know at the moment
you have like you do video and you do blogs and you do websites. You do lots of different things? But as an expert, you know that for most small business owners, businesses with less than 15 people, that's probably one of five things that they like collect. Like it might be an
amalgamation different stuff, one of five packages
that they could choose that will get them the desired outcome. These three to five core products will satisfy 80 to 90% of the marketplace. Now you've probably had them
clients who come and go, "Well that's great, but do
you think you could do this "for me? "And do you think you
could do that for me?" Right, those are the 10%, they're called pain in the ass factor clients [laughs] who we don't want in our business.

– We love all our clients. – Oh, we love all of our clients. But we don't– – We don't have any
pain in the ass clients. – We don't have to love the prospect who are potentially going to
become pain in the ass clients. – Yup. – Yep. So what we do is
through your sales process, you will, first of all,
you'll be saying, right, "So how we work is we have
one day, a planning workshop. "We go through absolutely everything. "We go through the setup and you get "your 12 months report
off the back of it," and blah, blah, blah. That's going to cost
you a thousand pounds. And from there, well
we can discuss it now, but from that we'll be recommending whether you go for package
A, package B, package C or our silver, gold or platinum package.

And what we do is,
during the sales process, you'd say something along the lines of, "Well, hey, listen, you
know, based on what I've seen "so far during the consultation, "the package I'd recommend
for you would be, "our gold package. "And these are the reasons why. "You're five-person
business, you're looking "to grow your turnover by 20k per month.

"And, you know, that
package is our 500 pound "a month package. "So we'll do the breakthrough day with you "and then we'll get you onto that package. "We have minimum three months retainer," I'd increase that I'd go for
six months retainer personally. So you can see all of a sudden,
that now that's, you know, you've created what we call,
a customer lifetime value of somewhere close to four k. Yup. So thousand pounds up front,
six months at 500 quid, that's four grand a client. Okay. Whereas probably at the moment, it sounded like so 200 pounds a month, was your average minimum three months. Your average customer lifetime value is currently 600 pounds. – Mm-hmm. – And they'd probably stay for longer cause it's good for money.

– I mean most of our
clients, stay for much longer than that. I mean a lot of our clients
we were working with for the two years since we started, but you are right in so much as that sort of short term periods. There's a lot of time that goes into that and in theory it could only
just be 600 pounds return on that. – Yeah. So there we go. So we can increase your
customer lifetime value from 600 pounds to 4,000 pounds. You can switch that on today. If you have a prospect,
you could pitch this today. [laughing] Okay, so this is where we get– – I wanna get a hold of this. – this is where we get
into pricing validation. Okay. So what tends to
happen is when I start to put out these ridiculous
figures to people, they're not ridiculous at all. I think that they'd be
more than reasonable.

And I bet you deliver amazing value. You'll go and pitch this this afternoon. Your competence is a bit wobbly and you'd be like one person says, "Oh gosh, that's expensive." You won't quite know how to handle it because maybe you haven't
had sales training. And you will be like, "Oh, Robin's didn't know
what he's talking about." And you go back to what
you were doing before, despite the fact that you don't
feel it's working for you. Okay. The trick to validating
at new price points is, it might be don't sell it
for if a grand is too much, don't sell it for grand. Maybe go for 500 quid from planning one, but then get them into
a high retained fee. And we gradually move up
the scale of initiative until we get close to, "Right, okay. "I'm feeling confident in the pitch. I'm gonna to pitch a grand today." And the idea behind it, as well
as that you get to the point whereby you need to pitch
this thousand pound product to minimum of 10 to 20 people.

The reason for that is
people are very unpredictable and I can guarantee that,
you know, a good close rate is one in five to one in three. Okay. For most businesses, if you're higher than one
in three you're too cheap, just a little hint. – Yeah, I'm kind of realising that. – Yeah. So the, but I can
guarantee you if you'd like one in five close rate, the
first eight people say no, it would be the last two who say yes. So it's all about data validation. You have to pitch it and pitch
it and pitch it and pitch it. And I can guarantee if you do
that, it's a 10 to 20 people, will say yes. Okay. So how does that feel? – Yeah, sounds about right. I worked in sales for
10 years before going into marketing and those
figures were exactly the same figures that we were,
we originally told as well.

– Great. So, there we go. So we talked about goals, talked about how we could potentially
create a business that's going to get you to 5k. We've talked about how you
might price those products and it's now, excuse
me, it's now down to you to probably go into a
bit of design on that and you're welcome to
kind of feed it back to me in the group and ask questions. That's actually fine. So we've covered goals
and pricing and I talked about curve ball. Are you ready for this? – If right. – So, offline, Jo, before I recognise I've talked an awful lot. Offline Jo, you mentioned that
you had a YouTube channel, which I found really fascinating. Not only that, but you've
got to…, so tell everybody about the YouTube channel. – So the YouTube channel is just my hobby. It's just a, for those of you who know me, I'm really into craft.

And I was always very into,
craft groups on Facebook and that sort of thing. And I started finding
that I was it would repeat the same questions were being asked on, on Facebook, crafting
groups and how to do this, how to do that. So I found out as far as
not as asking, answering the same questions again and again. And at some point I thought,
blow this for a luck, I'm just going to make a video
so that when someone asks the same question, I can
just send them straight to the video. That was, I think I started
making videos about three or four years ago. And I think the last time
I checked we had just shy of 11,000 subscribers. I'm making quite a good income
from my craft tutorials. And certainly at the
moment, up until the point where I'm now going to be
charging more for my time, I'm actually getting paid more
for my income from my craft, the tutorial videos than
I am from my day job.

So yeah, that's right. – Is it fair to say, cause
I mean, I was blown away when you told them,
when I had a quick look at your YouTube channel and you've got 11,800
or 10,900 subscribers, you're making a few hundred pounds or even more, some months. You've got hundreds of
thousands of views off just, I think it's about 40 or 50 videos. So that you've clearly built an audience that it's engaged and
it's earning some revenue, which is absolutely amazing.

I was in awe of that. As a digital marketer,
what is the one thing that every small business owner
should be doing right now? – Video. – Video without a shadow of a doubt. Little story actually. This is just a slight aside,
a bit of entertainment value for everybody. I had a guy who came up to me
at an event, few months ago and he said, "Robin, Robin, Robin," said, "your profile is brilliant. "Love your book. "I've got a couple of quick
questions if you've got time." He said, "What is the one
thing that I should be doing "in my business right now? "It's kind of like grow it, you know, "and like market myself." And I said, "Video, just video everything, "create YouTube channel and
get Facebook lives going, "blah blah, blah.

"Just do absolutely everything." And he looks at me,
scratched his head for a bit. And he went, "Robin, what's
the second most important thing "I should be doing in my business?" And I was like, "No,
you've missed the point. "It's video." A lot of people are very afraid of video, but also I think it's
not just the technology, but it's also the process of uploading it and optimising the YouTube
channel and various things like that. You have mastered those
skills quite effectively and you've managed to monetize it. Now for a lot of small businesses, they don't need to monetize it. They just need to get for it to get leads for that business or grow
that raise their profile. Why are you not? Why do you not have like a programme for teaching business
owners how to master video? – That's is an excellent point. I think it's because were,
as part of our package, we do whatever we possibly can to make our clients social
media as successful as possible.

– Key thing. Key thing. Right. But you're gonna have to
go with me on this one. I said it was a curve ball. Okay. But this isn't going to be
a massive shift for you. You just said we do whatever
we can for our clients. Okay. There's three different
types of products out there. Okay, there's done for you, which is what you're doing at the moment. Client says, "Needs some
work doing on my blog. "Can you do it for me?" Yeah sure we can do that. So it's done for your time,
for money exchange means you're tied.

But more importantly to the client base that you've got. And you've got to meet people and you've got to have
all those discussions. Obviously we've got the
zoom and stuff nowadays, but done for you is quite
it's resource heavy, resource hungry, sorry. You got done with you, which has a more of a coaching product. It's what I do. So I will sit down and
help you make your plan, but it's up to you to then implement it. And then you've got third
option, which is DIY. So there's a lot of people making courses, especially right now. And there's going to be
a dearth of good courses and a dearth of really
shit courses out there.

On the whole, there's going
to be an awful lot of courses. But it means that you
know, it's maximum leverage of your time cause it's
like produce a good course and you can just sell it
multiple times without having to really lift a finger if you can master advertising copy and all the good things that you do. So my suggestion is you shift potentially, I mean, you could do both. You could still do both. So you've got your done with you. The business is flying. You know, you keep on doing social media and digital marketing for your clients. But you should have a
coaching product, teaching business owners how to master video. You can do it as a group
format, not one to one. So they have some element
of like blended learning, like an online portal. Here's how to create a video.

Here's how to upload a
video, here's how to optimise it on YouTube and get
more views and subscribers and things like that. If you want to monetize
it, you can, here's how you optimise it to generate leads. Here's how you integrate
it with your website. So when you upload a blog article, you embed the video within
it, et cetera, et cetera. And then you have a weekly
or monthly coaching call with your clients whereby
they can ask you questions about their YouTube channels. Now imagine, if you just, and
this may sound like a lot, it may not. Let's see how it lands. Imagine if you had a hundred clients. Paying you a hundred pounds a month. – Yeah. – To have you coaching them YouTube videos and you do it all your time.

All the time is required for you. There is a few sales calls a week plus one blockbuster Q and A. Or you could do more than
that if you wanted to do, but one blockbuster Q and A a week. – But is 11,000 YouTube
subscribers a gauge of success. – Massively. – Yeah? – Massively. I've got 1,400 subscribers. I get clients through my
YouTube channel. Right? – Okay. – It's a game changer for small businesses if they adopt it now. Because the challenges do business owners, if anybody's watching
this, is there anybody who is gonna be looking at
this in 12 or 24 months time, wishing they'd started
12 to 24 months ago? I can guarantee most people
watching this will be thinking I should have started
video a year or two ago. – I can definitely recommend it. It's great going in typing in, going into your Google ads accounts and seeing how much they're paying you. – Yeah. – It's really encouraging. So I've thrown this in at the end. We're kind of coming to a
close now and I want this, I've thrown it in there
just because I want you to now get the creative juices going and to start thinking about it.

Think about it. A hundred clients a month now. We didn't share it at the
start but one of your goals was kind of location
independence, ability to travel, you know, things that
you were kind of doing before lockdown and what
not and to kind of get a bit of that life back. But what that requires
is doing less of the done for you stuff because there
are natural ties to that. – Yeah. You can coach
from anywhere in world. You can create content
from anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter, but
you, you need two things. You need the financial independence and the location independence. And a hundred clients,
a hundred quid a month is actually more than
feasible, especially with your marketing knowledge. You should be able to
attract a lot of people. And video is a hot topic.

– Yeah. – So there you go, there's a
big opportunity for you there. If you're open to it. – Oh I'm open to it. [laughs] – The other cool things as well, it didn't have to be a hundred clients or a hundred quid a month. That's, I'm gonna do an industry, I'm gonna unlock the 10 now, can of worms on industry secrets
around coaching products. Okay. We have something called
a high ticket offer, in the coaching world. And that's where you could
charge three grand for a course, but then you can packaged
that however you like. You can take payments however you like. You can include whatever
time you'd like within it.

So rather than a hundred quid a month and people kind of like maybe
after three or six months, they're kind of like, "No,
I think I've got everything "I need now," and leaving. And then you having to kind
of do the sales marketing, you know, I call it sale cycle of doom. If it sale it, sale it, sale it. Oh, you know, something happens to me. I can't sell anymore. Don't get any more clients. I would actually look to maybe introduce a YouTube training products that were somewhere in reaching
1500 quids, three grand that you can just, you know, just once you've set all of your
assets up, courses build, you can just passively just
wait for people to come to you. I bet there's a tonne of people
in your crafting community who would love to learn
how to do what you've done. – Yeah. Quite possibly. – Who would be immediate clients, because think of the return
on investment for them. They invest 1500 quid in the course, so it's going to produce them 500 pounds. It's going to take them awhile, but 500 pound a month's worth of revenue.

In ad sense. – That's a good point actually. I mean, there's certainly
a lot of, businesses. There's a lot of crossover. The size of business that
I would usually be working with Mustard Media, those
who are already within the craft industry, they
could definitely benefit from YouTube income revenue. – Yeah. Tonne of opportunity. Cool. How was that for you? – Brilliant. Excellent. Yeah, I've got lots of ideas
firing off in my brain. I'm looking forward to
working with you further. – Awesome. So that was what I wanted to hear. I'm glad you enjoyed that. So if anybody else is watching this and they want to take part in
the Fix Your Business series, best way to do that is
to, either message me on, in Facebook or drop me an
email robin@fearless.biz that's R-O-B-I-N @fearless.biz. Or you can hop onto the
fearless.biz website and you can go and grab
yourself a free copy of "Take Your Shot If You Want To." There's tonnes of stuff,
tonnes of value on there. Thank you, Jo. That's an absolute pleasure.

I hope you, it sounds like
you found that helpful, so that's great. Thank you very much for being a Guinea pig on The Fix Your Business Series. – Anytime..

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